I am male, so I am speaking from that perspective, but I have never been sold on the idea of having/raising kids, especially after I became educated - education (generally) affords more opportunities, kids, especially for women, only limits them. I can take a job across the country suddenly with little thought, work or do hobbies for long hours without worry of depriving my dependents. I can think about the future on my own terms, not hazy ones based on offspring that may/may not be on the same page about said future.
The tradeoffs presented to me don't appear appealing. "Who will take care of you when you're old?" Well, myself, presumably. That isn't a very strong argument, especially when considering the massive sacrifice and loss of freedom that comes with procreation. I know everyone says it is worth it, but I find little appealing to it. What's more, is society sees this as some sort of fundamental character flaw or moral failing rather than a rational decision based on my values.
Even beyond that, on a philosophical/ethical level, I believe bringing children into a world of such uncertainty and possible collapse is not really that appealing either, whether or not that is realistic. The anxiety I'd feel about such conditions the world is currently in would be orders of magnitude higher if I had children.
> "Who will take care of you when you're old?" Well, myself, presumably.
I'm sure nearly every person who ended up needed their kids to take care of them probably felt the same way right up until they needed help.
Regardless, "future help" is definitely a terrible reason to have kids. As you noted, it's a complete change in life, lifestyle, and priorities. One needs to be ready for this (or as ready as one can be, anyway) before taking it on, and be willing to commit 100% to a journey that will be unpredictable and that has no guarantees of success or happiness.
As a parent that was previously in a "no way am I having kids" state, yet wouldn't trade in being a parent for anything else in the world, I have 100% respect for those who do and those who don't want to have kids.
"I believe bringing children into a world of such uncertainty and possible collapse is not really that appealing either, whether or not that is realistic."
What a curious response. I have been hearing that argument for over 50 years, and, arguably, it has been used across the world since the first world war over 100 years ago, and (especially) since the first atomic bomb was dropped.
And yet it is essentially a feeble and frail argument based upon fear of the unknown.
This topic constantly belies the fact that everywhere it is discussed is a sausage fest. Pregnancy, childbirth, and nursing are energetically demanding, physically unpleasant, dangerous things to do. Sexually reproducing creatures nonetheless have a strong instinct to do it because we wouldn't exist otherwise, but education brings increasing choices, increasing opportunities to do anything else, and once you have that choice, at least some birthing people are going to choose something else at least some of the time. Ergo, you get a marginal effect.
I am male, so I am speaking from that perspective, but I have never been sold on the idea of having/raising kids, especially after I became educated - education (generally) affords more opportunities, kids, especially for women, only limits them. I can take a job across the country suddenly with little thought, work or do hobbies for long hours without worry of depriving my dependents. I can think about the future on my own terms, not hazy ones based on offspring that may/may not be on the same page about said future.
The tradeoffs presented to me don't appear appealing. "Who will take care of you when you're old?" Well, myself, presumably. That isn't a very strong argument, especially when considering the massive sacrifice and loss of freedom that comes with procreation. I know everyone says it is worth it, but I find little appealing to it. What's more, is society sees this as some sort of fundamental character flaw or moral failing rather than a rational decision based on my values.
Even beyond that, on a philosophical/ethical level, I believe bringing children into a world of such uncertainty and possible collapse is not really that appealing either, whether or not that is realistic. The anxiety I'd feel about such conditions the world is currently in would be orders of magnitude higher if I had children.
> "Who will take care of you when you're old?" Well, myself, presumably.
I'm sure nearly every person who ended up needed their kids to take care of them probably felt the same way right up until they needed help.
Regardless, "future help" is definitely a terrible reason to have kids. As you noted, it's a complete change in life, lifestyle, and priorities. One needs to be ready for this (or as ready as one can be, anyway) before taking it on, and be willing to commit 100% to a journey that will be unpredictable and that has no guarantees of success or happiness.
As a parent that was previously in a "no way am I having kids" state, yet wouldn't trade in being a parent for anything else in the world, I have 100% respect for those who do and those who don't want to have kids.
"I believe bringing children into a world of such uncertainty and possible collapse is not really that appealing either, whether or not that is realistic."
What a curious response. I have been hearing that argument for over 50 years, and, arguably, it has been used across the world since the first world war over 100 years ago, and (especially) since the first atomic bomb was dropped.
And yet it is essentially a feeble and frail argument based upon fear of the unknown.
Interesting to hear a techie say it.
2006 seems so long ago. Anyone else remember Mike Judges take on this topic?
https://youtu.be/sP2tUW0HDHA
This topic constantly belies the fact that everywhere it is discussed is a sausage fest. Pregnancy, childbirth, and nursing are energetically demanding, physically unpleasant, dangerous things to do. Sexually reproducing creatures nonetheless have a strong instinct to do it because we wouldn't exist otherwise, but education brings increasing choices, increasing opportunities to do anything else, and once you have that choice, at least some birthing people are going to choose something else at least some of the time. Ergo, you get a marginal effect.
wohooo